Mentorship
Sharing a few short thoughts about what mentorship is and isn't. Not sure I'm really digging deep enough into it, but wanted to hear out loud the looping that was going on in my head while splitting some wood.
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Summary
Today’s podcast revolves primarily around the concept of mentorship. Tosh shares personal thoughts and experiences, emphasizing the natural, organic nature of mentorship as opposed to a formalized or institutionalized approach. Here are the key points made:
Mentorship as a Natural Process: Tosh stresses that mentorship should be a natural and organic process, not something that can be forced or institutionalized. He criticizes attempts to formalize mentorship, like the Marine Corps mentorship program, which he believes strips away the essence of what mentorship truly is.
Relationship Dynamics: Tosh discusses the dynamics of the mentor-protege relationship, explaining that it should evolve naturally and be mutually beneficial. He emphasizes that mentorship is not about a mentor pouring out all their knowledge, but about understanding and guiding the protege.
Mentorship vs. Coaching or Counseling: There's a distinction made between mentorship and other forms of guidance like coaching or counseling. Mentorship, according to Tosh, should not involve a monetary exchange, as this changes the nature of the relationship.
Personal Experience with Mentoring: Tosh shares personal anecdotes about his experiences with mentoring and being mentored. He talks about mentors he's had and how those relationships were more than just formal or professional connections.
Misconceptions About Mentorship: Tosh criticizes the misuse of the term 'mentorship' in modern contexts, particularly when it's used for financial gain or to promote business. He argues that true mentorship is selfless and not driven by financial incentives or personal gain.
Finding a Mentor: The advice given for finding a mentor is to not actively seek one out. Instead, Tosh suggests that mentor-mentee relationships form naturally, often out of mutual respect and interest.
Personal Reflections: Throughout the podcast, Tosh reflects on his own life, struggles, and the therapeutic nature of the podcast for him. He mentions working through personal challenges and the importance of recognizing and accepting one’s struggles.
Overall, the podcast presents a view of mentorship as a deeply personal, organic process that should be free of formal constraints and not motivated by financial gain or personal accolades.
Transcript
Alright, hey what's up everybody?
Been a little while.
Man, it's been a long while.
But I haven't given up on doing the podcast, I'll explain in a minute.
But I was just out splitting wood this morning, real early.
The dogs woke me up.
I gotta go to my treatments.
But I was out there just splitting wood.
Man, what honest work, right?
What honest work.
You got a tool, you got a piece of wood, you swing it.
If it splits, you were good.
If it didn't split, you weren't good enough.
Period.
No judgement, no nothing, right?
And you just work.
The wood's indifferent.
The tool's indifferent.
It's just you.
It's peaceful.
You get a rhythm.
You swing.
Man, just peaceful.
But inevitably you're out there doing something mindless like that.
Beautiful and something pops into your head.
And it did again for me, you know?
And a lot of things over the last couple months, things been popping in my head.
I've been working on a lot of stuff.
And I have stuff I want to record.
I've been working on it.
And then, put me in this.
This just got into my head.
And I was looping it.
It was just looping in my head.
I was having this conversation over and over and back and forth with myself.
And I was like, you know what?
Just stop.
Go sit down and record.
Listen to yourself out loud.
You know?
I had to break that cycle.
So I wanted to sit down and listen to myself out loud.
Otherwise it's just the same echo bouncing back and forth between ear to ear to head to head inside.
But, yeah, even if I have any listeners, I don't know.
I'm not necessarily doing this for you anyways.
I'm doing it for myself.
But, yeah, I'm doing it for others too.
That's not entirely true.
I am doing it for others.
So I think it's a cool conversation.
And, again, I do have more stuff to record.
I decided.
.
.
I've been going back and forth on this.
It's like, yeah.
I want to.
.
.
Oh, yeah.
I want to keep doing a podcast.
Be consistent.
Just keep doing it.
Keep doing it.
And it's like, well, that's not why I'm doing a podcast though.
You know?
I tried that and it just didn't.
.
.
It was good.
It felt labored though.
And I get it.
It's okay for something to feel labored before it feels natural and get in a groove.
Like I gave it the go.
But something was just.
.
.
And I felt like I was struggling to come up with something because I felt like I had to say something.
And I just.
.
.
Hey, man, who cares?
I'll just pocket.
Maybe it'll be every day for a couple days.
Maybe it'll be every week for a couple weeks.
Maybe it'll go two months, three months, four months.
And that's fine.
And if people listen to it, they listen to it.
Again, it's not the reason why I'm.
.
.
Not the sole reason why I'm doing it.
But anyways, I did get an email saying my account.
I had to pay my balance.
My credit card number changed, something, something.
But I did have like 150 downloads last week.
I've been getting them.
I don't understand.
That's cool.
But I wanted to talk about mentorship is what I wanted to talk about.
That's what I've been looping in my head.
Looping it in my head.
What about it?
I had a young guy talking to a couple weeks ago.
He was asking me about mentorship and if I would be his mentor.
I was like, no.
Don't think that's the answer he wanted, obviously.
I think he was surprised though that I just said no.
And not that I don't want.
.
.
Not that I'm not interested in being a mentor for as many people as I can possibly mentor authentically, within my capacity, whatever, whatever.
That's not mentorship.
You don't just like, hey, will you be my mentor?
Yes, I will.
Sign a contract and shake a hand.
That's not even the spirit of mentorship.
But anyway, we had a great conversation.
We talked for like an hour.
He's lost a little bit in his life and he wants to find his way.
He's getting let down.
I talked to him a little bit and I gave him some perspective.
I wouldn't say I gave him advice.
I gave him different ways to think about his situation and what he's looking for.
And then that was that.
But he wanted me to be a mentor.
I'm like, yeah, yeah.
I don't even know if I fucking like you.
I didn't say that out loud.
And I don't mean that in a bad way.
It's just like, you're reaching out to me out of the blue.
I don't even know you really.
We're talking a little bit.
I'm not a life coach and I'm not charging you.
Right?
Like, hey, you want professional counseling services, advisor services, coaching services?
Different story.
But that's not what mentors are.
Mentors don't charge.
That's not the spirit of it.
And I get it.
There's so many other people disagree with me.
I'm like, yeah, because you fucked it up because you don't understand because you're trying to make money.
Or you're trying to institutionalize.
Like the Marine Corps fucked it.
I think the Marine Corps fucked it all up.
Back in the day, I don't know, I must have been in the Marine Corps maybe like five, six years, seven years.
And they came out with this thing.
Like, Marine Corps mentorship program.
Maybe I was in for a little longer, like 10 years, 12 years.
And Marine Corps mentorship program.
And they tried to institutionalize something that shouldn't be institutionalized.
It's something that's such a great idea and it's beautiful and it's wonderful.
And yeah, you want to encourage everybody to do this.
But then you want to formalize it and institutionalize it and you just strip away all the essence of it.
And you call it a mentorship program.
You know?
And it's like, that's not how it works.
It's not what it's supposed to be.
You know?
And right now I'm listening to myself and I'm saying, well, Tosh, you keep saying what it's not, what it's not.
Well, tell me what the fuck it's supposed to be.
I don't know.
It's supposed to be natural.
I can't remember.
I can't Google it.
Socrates, Aristotle, Plato, one of the three fucking super smart dudes way back in the day 10,000 years ago or something.
One of them was the student.
One of them was the teacher.
But that wasn't necessarily a student-teacher relationship.
It was in the beginning and it grew into something more.
That's what I'm trying to say.
It grew into something more.
There became this affinity between the teacher and the pupil.
And it grew beyond just like a formal relationship or even an informal type, formal something, semi-formal.
But the mentor found something, gift, value, purpose from sharing with the protege.
And the protege benefited tremendously from the mentor.
In ways of wisdom and guidance and love and spirit.
And the mentor was somebody that the protege would just kind of go to for whatever it was.
And there was a natural attraction.
Mutually beneficial.
And the benefits were in different ways.
But it wasn't organized like, hey Joe, I'd like you to be my mentor.
Hey John, no problem.
Let's handshake.
Let's meet every Wednesday and we're going to talk no matter what for an hour.
We're going to do this and we're going to do that.
And you're going to tell me, that's not a mentor program.
That's not what mentorship is.
That's counseling.
That's something else.
You know?
I think about my mentors.
They weren't officially assigned.
I think about Pat.
I think about Dan.
Probably the two biggest mentors I have.
And it's no slight against other individuals that I absolutely respect and that have advised me and counseled me.
And I look up to and I would follow to the ends of the earth.
Those guys are great too.
But they weren't mentors in the mentor sense.
Even Bob Pittock who refuses to talk to anybody these days.
I don't know why.
Hopefully someday he decides to again.
But those three guys were mentors.
You know?
And it started out my relationship with them in an official and formal capacity as subordinate and senior in a command relationship.
But there was also something there special.
Something extra.
And it was like, yeah, I enjoyed, they enjoyed, there was a connection, there was a gravitation.
And it formed this relationship.
And then when I was removed from the formal capacity of a commander, a subordinate, or a senior and a subordinate, and I found myself in a different chain of command or something else, I still sought these people out.
And they welcomed me.
Or they sought me out.
And I welcomed them.
And I stay in touch with them still to this day.
Two of the three.
And it's not like I'm reporting to them every week or every month.
It could be a year goes by.
Could be two days go by.
Sometimes it's once every week.
It just happens when it happens when you feel compelled to reach out.
Sometimes for guidance.
Sometimes to share.
Sometimes just to check in.
And there's an exchange there between the two.
Right?
It's not organized.
Okay, that doesn't.
.
.
And that's great.
Right?
That's cool.
I'm going to go through a few strokes, but let's get into it even more.
Right?
Mentors.
You want to be a mentor?
Here's some giveaways.
When I'm looking or listening or hearing about, I'm like, yeah, that's not a mentor.
It appears to be one and they're selling themselves as one.
But they're not.
They're missing it.
A simple one is when they.
.
.
well, I can't use it anymore.
It used to be mentor-mentee.
People used to say mentor-mentee.
Mentee was never a word until like fucking yesterday when Merriam-Webster decided to put it in there because everybody started using it.
It's not the original.
It's mentor and protege.
For a long time, you'd hear somebody say, oh, you know, I want to be my mentee.
Do you want to be my mentee?
I got seven mentees.
And it's like, yeah, you're a douchebag.
Because it's not mentee, it's protege.
And I get, right?
It's protege.
The word sounds weird.
It doesn't feel right.
Mentor-mentee sounds good.
Sounds cool.
But 20 years ago, 25 years ago, it wasn't in the dictionary.
Nowadays, it is, so I can't really use that.
But that just rubs me wrong.
Fucking mentee.
But that's petty.
That's super petty, Tosh.
Let that go.
Mentors, quote unquote, these individuals who claim to be mentors, and you listen to them and it's like, they're trying to tell or share everything they fucking know.
Right?
And it's like, yeah, hey, you're not a mentor.
It's like, what are your motives?
Your motives aren't for the other individual, really.
It might be clouded.
You might be confused.
Your greatest of intentions might be it's for the other individual.
But ultimately, you've got some soul searching to do because it's not.
.
.
Mentors don't just share everything they possibly fucking have.
That's not what they do.
It's not a mentor piece.
That could be a teacher, instructor, coach, I don't know, don't care.
It's not a mentor.
And I'll see these people like, oh, yeah, and they're just gushing and gushing and they know fucking everything and they're just sharing everything and they fucking know.
It's like, yeah, hey, you're not a mentor.
You're not.
You're sharing it because who are you trying to.
.
.
You're trying to prove something?
Are you trying to prove something to me?
Something to you?
Something to the other guy?
Like, yeah, ultimately you're trying to prove something to somebody and that's not what mentors are trying to.
.
.
Mentors aren't trying to prove anything.
You know?
There's somebody that's always got answers and this and that and they always.
.
.
It's like, yeah, hey, mentors listen, actually, more than they talk.
And then when they do talk, mentors aren't really giving answers.
Mentors are helping people arrive at the answers that are best suited for them.
You know?
Yeah, I get it.
Like, hey, sort of like, what's two plus two?
Like, well, is Johnny?
That's four.
I get it, right?
Like, I can still be a mentor and do that, but I'm talking about life shit.
Mentors seek to understand their audience and then they share with the audience that which will help that individual grow and learn given the situation that they're in or they're interested in.
Right?
They're not sharing the information for themselves or this is the way I did it or this is the way it's got to be.
You're a douchebag.
That's not fair either.
You're not a douchebag.
You're just not a mentor or you're just ignorant or you're just learning how to.
.
.
You can still care and somebody.
.
.
You know what I mean?
You can still absolutely care about the other guy or girl and that person can also care tremendously about you and this and that and there's this informal exchange of culture or wisdom or something.
So I'm being totally.
.
.
I'm totally being not fair.
Why am I being not fair?
I'm agitated by something.
I think there's a lot.
.
.
mentorship is an art and there's so many people that want to be mentors and they promote it as their business that they're mentors and that's not what they are.
It's not what they are and it bothers me.
Why does it bother me?
I don't know.
Probably because I think I'm a really good mentor to the people that I mentor and there's some judgment, ego, arrogance, something there that when I look at somebody else trying to help somebody and then it's like, hey, fuck it, who cares?
So why am I going off on all this?
What's the big deal?
I just want people to understand, right?
I just want people to understand somebody who knows everything, they're probably not a mentor.
Somebody that always has the answers, they're probably not a mentor.
Somebody that's always telling you what to do, how to do it, not a mentor.
There's something else and I'm not saying that they're not valuable.
Right?
What was the other one that I kept looping?
I want to meet the audience with where they're at and share with them different ways of thinking so that they can help see themselves or see their situation outside of themselves or differently and then they can grow.
I want to teach them how to think, not what to think.
I want to give them the skills to be able to do what they want to do, not do it for them or tell them how to do it.
The struggle is where it's at, right?
I don't think mentors should charge money.
I think that just changed the name of the game.
But that could be unfair.
That could be really unfair.
I got a business mentor.
I want to pay you to help mentor me.
I would say it's not mentor, it's coach.
I need you to help coach me.
I need you to help teach me.
But we want to use the word mentor because it's sexy and it's what's selling all over the fucking Instagrams.
Or at least that's what's selling in my feed because the Instagram is giving me the shit that I keep reacting to.
That's probably all it is.
Oh man, fucking head hurts now.
But anyways, yeah, I didn't want to be this guy's mentor, this young man's mentor.
It just didn't feel natural.
It felt forced.
You want to pay me $500 an hour to be your fucking coach?
Like cool, I'll do that.
The $350?
Sure.
$100?
No.
You know what I mean?
And I'll still care about you and I'll still share with you.
But it's different.
It's contractual.
My value is because of the monetary exchange.
It doesn't make me a bad person.
Right?
It doesn't make me a bad person.
And it's like, hey, I care about this other guy.
It's this brotherly love type thing towards this other guy or this other gal or something.
And it's like they feel the same way and they're getting the same advice or care that I would be for a paying client.
That's because I'm benefiting.
I'm receiving the transactional gain for me is that I'm helping somebody I really, really care about in a way that's different than another person.
It doesn't make the other person bad either.
It somehow feels different.
I don't want to get into mentorship as a business.
It takes away the fun.
It takes away the spirit, the intimacy, the magic of how I hold on to what being a mentor is.
And it's neat.
You watch the people that you've mentored and they don't go away.
And that should be good.
When they go away, right?
If they've received, they've benefited, now they've got to go out on their own and try out.
They always reach back.
They always reach back to you.
If you're a good mentor, man, you might not hear from somebody for two, three years and then all of a sudden they're back in your life out of the blue.
I think that's good.
I think that's beautiful, actually.
I think that's what it's supposed to be.
Just a little, I just kept looping that in my head while I was splitting wood.
That's funny too because I think going back to an image of something that I've seen, I want to be careful how I share this.
I was watching somebody else show somebody how to split wood.
It's funny that this is coming up while I was splitting wood actually now as I think about it.
I was talking about this little incident the other day, Ginger and I.
Yeah, it's funny.
Here's this guy teaching this other person how to split wood.
It's like, are you teaching another person to teach them because you want to teach them how to split wood or are you teaching them because you want to look like a fucking rock star?
Macho man.
I know that's weird because you don't have the vision that I have in my head, but it's like this guy keeps taking the axe out of the other person's hand over and over again and doing it himself over and over again.
Overwhelming the person with every piece of information that he possibly knows.
You're not helping that person grow.
Maybe you're just not practicing the art of what I'm talking about.
That's fair too, right?
Because it's a learned skill.
But I was just like, yeah, here's a dude that was largely.
.
.
And a good dude, but he wasn't doing it for the other person.
He was doing it for himself.
And you could see it.
Really well trained, calibrated eye can see it.
You know?
And not to mention the instruction was horrible.
It wasn't really working for him, but it doesn't matter.
But I'm not trying to be a dick or anything.
I'm just saying it's funny how I was out splitting wood and that's really what I was watching.
It's probably where I was tying everything to.
But anyways, yeah, you want to find a mentor?
Stop looking for one.
You'll feel it.
Because what you're feeling is genuine love and care, compassion, interest, best intentions, selflessness.
You'll be a magnetism.
There'll be a gravitation that you just can't.
.
.
You can kind of sense it and you just get pulled to it.
And just because you're pulled to somebody doesn't mean that that person's pulled in return.
You would like to think that.
And I get it.
Magnets suggest otherwise.
Does north attract south or does south attract northeast?
Whatever.
So stop using the word.
.
.
Stop using magnets.
For the analogy then, it doesn't work.
But just because you have an attraction towards someone doesn't mean that they're going to in return.
Right?
But when it is, man, it's pretty freaking cool.
You know?
What does a mentor receive in exchange?
They're not trying to prove anything to anybody.
They're trying to transmit the wealth of experiences that they have to give another person benefit.
They're trying to pass on the wealth that they've received from somebody that they've respected.
And that's how you're giving honor to somebody that you've really, really respected.
Right?
In your past.
And you're trying to continue to let that live and breathe those lessons learned.
Live and breathe through somebody else.
And you feel so good about, hey, I get to share this from this person and pass it on to you.
Yeah.
Right?
Mentors don't own fucking information.
They've processed information that they've been given or they've arrived at and they share it.
They don't own it.
If you don't own it, it's not yours to sell.
Interesting.
But anyways, I'm just babbling along.
I'll record again.
I've got some good stuff to record.
I've been struggling a lot lately.
I've been struggling pretty good for the last month, two months.
So yeah.
And I've been sorting through it.
What am I struggling on?
None of your fucking business, really.
But I'm not struggling alone either.
And it's not an alarm.
I'm not raising an alarm.
Struggling well in some regards and not so well in others.
Just in this trough, man.
But I'm glad I recognize it and I'm doing okay.
And I'm putting things into place to help me get through it, to help me weather it, weather it well.
Like the weather will pass when the weather will pass.
And it's a good struggle.
I think it's a good, healthy struggle to be where I'm at.
I'm not in a rush to get out of it.
I'm not excited to stay in it.
But I'm not forcing anything.
I'm not doing it alone.
And yeah, there's just probably other things that are going on that are making the struggle seem more like a struggle, right?
Like I said, I'm not drinking.
And that's fucking lame.
June 15th, I stopped drinking only for 365 days right now.
That's the goal.
365 and then we'll reassess later.
But I just want to make it 365 days because I gave this lady a promise.
I haven't had any nicotine.
I haven't chewed since I started my treatments.
Going through that.
I got two more days left of that.
Four more treatments left.
So some good lifestyle changes.
I'm eating better.
Trying to get outside and do some more stuff.
But yeah, just feel off.
And you know what?
It's okay.
It's okay.
You know?
It's okay to feel off.
And it's important to feel off.
It's important to be aware of when you're feeling off and that it's okay that you're feeling off.
That's.
.
.
And then people don't.
.
.
You don't need to rush in to fix anything.
Because nothing's broken.
It's not broken, dude.
Right?
It's what it is and it's okay.
It's not ideal.
But man, if everything's ideal, like, you wouldn't have any envision.
.
.
You wouldn't have any reason, right?
So we'll just go through it.
Nobody's dying.
Nobody's getting maimed.
Nobody's.
.
.
You know?
Everything's fine.
It's just hard.
Things are just hard right now.
But we're getting there.
But anyways, probably gonna talk about that next time I sit down.
Because I'm still sorting through a few things.
But that's where I wanna go.
I started writing with Connor again.
I'm really excited about that.
Connor and I came up with a really good plan.
Connor and I came up with a really good plan to write this book.
Get after it again.
So we got all our notes from the last time.
And we're doing it.
I'm really excited, man.
Connor's been writing a lot.
Two pages of Connor.
He started something new.
I think he's like 18 weeks now.
Every day for 18 weeks.
Pretty cool.
Just writing his stuff.
Doing what he loves doing.
That makes me happy.
Seeing somebody do what they love to do.
So, alright.
Well, anyways.
Hope everybody's alright.
Doing well.
We'll chat you up when I chat you up next time.
Thank you very much.
